The Chosen’s Global Languages, with Brad Pelo

Glen Nelson: Wow. So I was doing a little research in advance of chatting with you today. The full Bible, Old and New Testament, is only in 736 languages. If it's just the New Testament, it gets into the thousands, but the full Bible is not. So 600 is a very, very big number. I was talking with some friends of mine in the entertainment industry about this. And they said, Oh, that must be a typo. You must mean 60. Let's say a show, like a Netflix streaming show, will do translations. How many languages would they typically provide?

Brad Pelo: The streamers generally are at 34 languages, it's kind of an industry standard. If they want to reach their maximum market for their streaming services, that's what they do. They publish those languages, those would be Hollywood's default language list. What we learned in this process is there's one television show that has been distributed so broadly that it actually is approaching I think now about 50 languages. And that show is Baywatch. So our mantra has been to beat Baywatch in the number of languages that were available. 

Glen Nelson: Seems like a worthy enough goal. I can't imagine how difficult this is, Brad, though. Are you sure you can do it, 600 languages?

Brad Pelo: We are well on our way. We are over 50 already, we have beaten Baywatch. We hope by the end of this year we'll be at 100. Here's a little miracle story. When we met up with folks at Come and See, they did not at the time have anyone who specialized in translating entertainment content. And they invite us to pray. The wonderful thing about the work I get to do is, it's not uncommon to be asked to pray around the decisions that we make regarding this TV show. So we all began praying that somehow it would be evident how to get this job done. And miraculously, the Come and See Foundation was introduced to a gentleman by the name of Rick Dempsey, and Rick had been the vice president.  I can't remember his exact title, but vice president reporting directly to the CEO at Disney. And he was responsible over the last 35 years for the voices of all the Disney characters all around the world, in making sure that the language dubs reflected the Disney brand. If you might just consider, some voices that might be able to act the part don't necessarily represent the character of that Disney brand. Or again, they were dealing with many of the same issues that we are, which is that something in its literal translation may not provide the meaning that was intended by the animators or the filmmakers. Rick had literally started the department there at Disney that created all these many Disney dubs for Disney programming across the world. And now, he, as a fan of The Chosen, was introduced to us as someone that might have the connections and expertise to help make this happen. He actually chose to leave Disney at that point, and now he leads the team at the Come and See Foundation to bring The Chosen to the world in these 600 languages. So it's all being done through professionals, the same people that are doing the translations for Disney shows, are doing the translations for The Chosen and the voice actors now, because of course, once it's translated, you have to get voice actors that can speak in that language to come do their part. We're really using the very best the industry has to offer to do this job. 

Glen Nelson: When you were in New York, you showed a clip that had a series of languages, and the single scene had all been dubbed. But when we're talking about translation, are you talking about dubbing? Or are you talking about subtitles? 

Brad Pelo: Good question. Our goal right now is to maintain 100 dubs—so that would be the voiceover—and 600 subtitles. So we're doing the translating of all 600 languages. And again, the steps are first to translate. Once it's translated, it goes to a subject matter expert. This is someone who lives in-country, native speaker, and has a background in biblical teaching. And it's their job to look at the translation, which may have been done by someone with no religious background at all, may not understand the context, and they make sure that they've been able to convey the meaning that we had in English into that native language. They then give their notes back to the translation team where final corrections are made. At that point, it goes into a casting process where the voices are actually cast among native speakers. And that work is typically done local to the native language. So if we're casting for Finnish voice actors, we're in Helsinki doing that work. They're actors who do this professionally for other Hollywood films, and they're now being asked to do it for this film.

Glen Nelson: Let me see if I can figure some of this out. Your production schedule is already so tight, because your writing and producing and editing almost overlap. I don't know how you all are sleeping. It's a lot, this rollout is quickly happening. With the translation, are you starting now and moving forward? Or have you gone back to the beginning of season one, and are doing all of that at the same time?

Brad Pelo: Well, we have the generous work of all these fans over the first two seasons. But once we realized that we needed a quality level and consistency that matched the show itself, we went back and started over. So over the last 18 months, there has been a process where we are re-translating and translating anew in all these languages and then doing the dubs to catch up. There were a few languages, I want to say about ten languages, that had been dubbed in season one, a few less in season two, but now those have all been redone. As of now we have about 50 languages that are translated and dubbed and many more languages that have been translated, with the goal by the end of this year to be at 100 languages fully translated and dubbed. 

Glen Nelson: What has the reaction been when you've been speaking to people who are seeing the season in different languages? Is it the same that you've had from people in English, or is it different?

Brad Pelo: No, it's very interesting to watch the show, in a foreign language. I don't speak a single foreign language. But it's interesting to watch people react emotionally in the very same ways that I'm used to reacting to the English version. But I'll share with you a really tender experience that I had this last year. I was invited by the President of Madagascar to come to his country and to be a part of a presidential premiere. Maybe the only one I ever attend in my life. But he, a Christian, had watched The Chosen in French. In Madagascar, they speak both French and Malagasy, which is the native language. And he watched it and was so moved by it, and felt that this is something his people needed. They needed to be exposed to the TV series, The Chosen. So he commissioned the translation into Malagasy, working with the Come and See Foundation, and because the majority of his countrymen don't read, it was very important to have this dubbed. The problem was that no television show had ever been done in Malagasy. There were no voice actors standing by ready to perform. What happened was, the French team actually went to Madagascar, and they recruited actors. I don't know if they were TV or stage actors, but they recruited actors, they created a makeshift audio studio/dubbing studio,  and they trained them how to do these voiceover dubs. Then over about a three week period, they had the performance, they recorded it. When all was said and done, they sent it back to the Come and See foundation and to the President. Now the Come and See Foundation thought, this is beautiful, must be great. But the President said no, they didn't do it right. He said, the performance is too stiff. He said, and he speaks English as well, but he said, the performance that I see in your show doesn't match what the Malagasy performers are doing. So he said, let's do it again. So they went back into the studio, re-coached the actors, and did it all over again. The finished product was then premiered at this event that my wife and I attended with the President. It was a state event, so it was all adults, you know, what are they going to do, they're going to respond as they should. The premiere was in the afternoon. That evening, we traveled in the presidential motorcade across the capital city, to an orphanage. And this orphanage, a Catholic orphanage, had I think seven thousand street children. During the day, they're on the streets of the capital city, but at night they have a place to stay and to get a meal. And so that evening, we gathered with three thousand of these orphans in a large auditorium. And as you might imagine, the President walks in to all sorts of applause, and they're excited to see their president and he speaks to them. But then the lights go down, and we play for them episode three of season one. Now, what's interesting about episode three is that's when Jesus engages with children. It's sort of off the beaten path of The Chosen story. And He meets Abigail and Joshua, these two local Jewish children. And these orphans watched that and reacted to that in just moving ways. But here's the interesting part of the story, because you asked how people are reacting. They laughed at the wrong places. And I turned to the translator beside me, and I said, ask the President why they're laughing. And I didn't get the answer in real time, because we were watching with the children. But at the end of the performance, the translator came back to me and he said, they're laughing at those spots because they're seeing Jesus do things that they do. And I said, what do you mean? They were laughing when He was cleaning His feet. They were laughing when He was brushing His teeth with His finger. They were laughing when He was carving. They were endeared. Their laughter wasn't out of humor. This is a Jesus that wears clothing like they wear. He's barefoot like they're barefoot. So as that was being revealed in the story, there was this spontaneous laughter in glee that they were experiencing a Jesus that they could relate to. That was just one of those magical moments, pinch yourself moments, that you get to experience vicariously through the lives of young children. Their reaction to this translation and dub that had never ever been seen, meaning no television show or movie had ever been seen by the Madagascar people in their native language.

Glen Nelson: Well, it sounds like you're getting quite an education, Mr. Pelo, through this process. If these languages are in predominantly non Christian countries, I assume you're also having the experience where people who have no idea who Jesus is at all are getting their first impression through this. Does that feel accurate to you?

Brad Pelo: Very much so. As you might imagine, Evangelists that are engaged in missionary nonprofit work, for years have been trying to get into these non-Christian nations. Not just proselytizing, like an LDS missionary might, but through publications and through cultural exchanges. And what The Chosen has provided them is a very non-threatening way to introduce the person of Jesus, and the story of Jesus. Now, in some cultures, particularly in Islam nations, they know of Jesus, they think of Him as one of the prophets, but they don't know His story, they don't know who He claimed to be. In many of these nations, these ministries that have worked so hard for decades without much effect, are now using The Chosen to just start with something that's entertaining. But through that entertainment, introduce folks to the person of Jesus in a way that is self-evident. He stands for who He says He is. No one's proselyting to you saying, you should believe what I'm about to tell you, they're just able to experience it in their native language. And we are seeing already, just within our mobile app, a significant growth in non-Christian nations. India, for example, is one of our top viewing nations now, in the top 10 nations that view The Chosen from the app.

Glen Nelson: The Chosen is successful for many reasons. And actually, I'd be curious to know why you think it's successful. But to me, it's about the freshness of characterization and its storytelling, and part of that is a result of dialogue, which is heavily connected to American idioms and slang, it seems to me. Biblical characters talk like people I know, and their speech is peppered with contemporary and specifically American English phrases. So then, when we're talking about translation in a foreign language, how do you do that? I mean, slang is really, really hard to translate correctly. I assume you want to retain the contemporary flavor of the language, too. If you don't, The Chosen isn't The Chosen anymore. What do you make of all of that?

Brad Pelo: That is, in fact, one of the big challenges between the fan version of translation and the new translation. Hollywood for years has faced the same challenge because contemporary language, as you point out, which is in most of Hollywood's work, needs to be relevant in local culture. In their translation and dubbing process, they tried to find close matches to slang, instead of the literal version. Calling someone a pig in America means they're gluttonous; calling someone a pig in other cultures means something entirely different. And so in the translation dubbing process, the selections are made that are intended to be localized to what would evoke the same, not only reaction from the audience, but bringing the same meaning. Not literally translate pig to whatever that word means in its language. But assault, so to speak, of that slang, what is it intended to convey? And that's part of the magic of the work that has been going on over the last years, as we've re-translated and created these dubs.

Glen Nelson: Dallas Jenkins is the writer/director behind all of this. Is he involved with a lot of these decisions about translation? 

Brad Pelo: He is not, no. He doesn't speak any languages himself. We've reviewed the process with him, and have made sure that he agrees with the way in which we're making decisions, but no. Once we kind of open the doors and translators and the subject matter experts begin their work, it's all in their hands.

Glen Nelson: I don't see how he would have a free second to do it. I hinted at this earlier in the question: to your mind why is The Chosen successful?

Brad Pelo: I would say it's successful because it's relatable. Even in the first episode, we don't meet Jesus until the final three minutes of that episode. He speaks very few lines, maybe two lines. And that's kind of a first for a Jesus show. Most Jesus shows have been about Jesus. And this show is intended to invite the viewer into the world that Jesus lived in. It was a very Jewish world. How many of us have actually thought of Jesus as Jew? We think of the Jews as those people that were looking for a Messiah, but we don't think about Jesus, the practicing Jew, nor do we think about the culture in which everyone lived at the time. So if we're a fisherman, we're Simon, living in his shoes is something that we want to focus on. Because only if we relate to Simon, will we be able to connect with Simon's experience with Jesus. So we set up in the storylines that sense of relatability. Some people say I relate to Mary and some people Andrew, or Simon, or Thomas, whatever. We have our character that we relate to which, they're almost archetypes, personality archetypes. And then we develop just that handful of stories in such a way that our journey to the Jesus part of the story is through their eyes, and as a result, relatable to us, because of our connection to those characters. We like to say that we've taken Jesus and His disciples off of stained glass windows and made them real. 

Glen Nelson: I love that analogy, because a minute ago, when you were talking about people who don't read seeing this, I was thinking of that exact thing. In the ancient church, you had stained glass windows because people couldn't read those scriptures. So those stories were all there for them to experience. I just have a couple more questions for you, Brad. You've had a long career in media. I know you as a thoughtful and introspective guy. I imagine you've considered how the steps of your life have led you to where you are on the shows. What would you say about that?

Brad Pelo: I think the first thing I would say is I didn't see this coming. In my early 40s, I decided to transition out of entrepreneurship and technology, building technology companies, and shift to media, which is something that I loved as a kid. But it seemed to be the irresponsible thing to do as a Latter-day Saint and a father of a big family. So I told myself I couldn't do it. But by the time I was in my 40s, my selection of a midlife crisis was to say, I'm going to do that crazy thing. And so I got into moviemaking and producing. And my experience at that point was to be defiant and say, I'm not going to do faith media. I'm not going to do it because I think it's cheesy. I'm not going to do it because I'm not even sure it's effective. I feel like audiences for faith based media are affirmation audiences. There are people who already believe what they're watching, and they just want to feel good about it. I would say that I was overly critical, to say nothing of the quality of filmmaking in general in the genre at the time. LDS filmmaking had come of age during that same period, you know, God's Army and The Other Side of Heaven. I had a little bit of a hand in The Other Side of Heaven in its day, just because I was the publisher of the book upon which it was based. So I had a little insight from afar, but I said, I'll have nothing to do with faith media. I went on to do Forever Strong, a story about a rugby team—I like sports films—The Legend of Johnny Lingo, the remake of the old BYU film for MGM, and another film called Outlaw Trail, the Butch Cassidy story. Nothing at all to do with faith particularly. To be at this point in my life, doing something that couldn't be more faithful, but doing it in what actually feels faithfully secular as well. I think it's Dallas's genius around his own faith, in just saying that he too didn't enjoy faith media, and he began to ask himself, why aren't there great stories told about biblical characters that would be entertaining, and that I would love to watch and love to share with my friends? Having not seen those himself, he finally decided to make them himself. And when he invited me to join the team, I was already hooked. I was a fan. I wasn't involved until season two. Season one, I was with you, Glen, in New York City, holed up in an apartment during the COVID period, and was exposed to The Chosen. I loved it and couldn't imagine someone was doing this level of work in compelling storytelling. So I reached out to Dallas, just as a fan and said, how can I help you, not looking to work with you or anything, just put me to work. How can I help you? And he said, well, I need a set. We don't know how to film season two, because we don't have a set for season two. And with COVID, everything's kind of shut down. And I was familiar, as many Latter-day Saints are with the Goshen set that the Church owns, and had some connections that were associated with the set. I made arrangements for Dallas to go visit the set with me one day, and he loved it, and then began the process of navigating The Church bureaucracy to find someone to say yes to letting us use that set. And the rest, as they say, is history. Because that began now my journey to join Dallas on his journey of bringing the show to the world. 

Glen Nelson: Jonathan Roumie, the actor portraying Jesus in The Chosen, has recently spoken in interviews about the moment when, I think he was in LA at the time as a destitute and exhausted actor, and he turned his life over to God. Then miracles seemed to happen almost immediately, including being chosen to play Jesus by Dallas Jenkins. He said that “this all felt ordained for me.” Does that resonate with you? Does it feel like destiny that you're connected with this?

Brad Pelo: You know, I would describe it as my life experiences are relevant, would be a better way to think of it. When I look at my patriarchal blessing and ask, are there any hints of what I'm now doing in my patriarchal blessing, I would say no, there's nothing that I can discover in that. It doesn't feel like I was being told at a young age, take this path because it will lead to what you're doing now. Instead, what I feel like is each step of my journey was made carefully and faithfully and with an objective of bringing good to the world, whether that was creating technology products or publishing books or making movies. Those things have now qualified me to lead a company that's responsible for making a popular TV show, publishing books, a popular mobile app that we've developed that people can use to access the show around the world. It's touching each of the things that in their own right I spent part of my career doing. So I would simply say that the journey has been one of adequate preparation so that by the time I arrived here at The Chosen, I was able to bring all those experiences together.

Glen Nelson: Alright. Any final thoughts? Tell us where you are. You're in season four of seven seasons. What's the chronology? Not chronology of the story, I know, but how is it going to roll out?

Brad Pelo: Sure. At the moment we're recording this podcast, we're in theaters with season four. We're doing three episodes at a time in theaters over a six week period, and then it'll be streaming later in the spring. We will be in production mid-April back in Utah on the Goshen set, shooting season five. Season five is Holy Week, so the entire season takes place in one week. We're familiar with Holy Week. So season four that people are watching now kind of ends at the gate of Jerusalem, and season five picks up at the gate of Jerusalem and takes us through the Garden of Gethsemane. And then season six takes us through the final day, one day all in one season. And then season seven will be what I think of as the resurrection and ascension chapter of the story.

Glen Nelson: And when do those appear to the public?

Brad Pelo: One year. Each spring we'll have another season. So the seventh season, which is the final season, will be in 2027.

Glen Nelson: This has been so wonderful talking to you, Brad. I'm so grateful to you for this. I have a lot of friends and family members who just hang on every new episode, which they watch again and again. I think that might be an interesting question to ask your team, too, about repeat viewing. I suspect you're going to have stories with that, even in decades to come. Thank you to all our listeners for supporting this podcast, which is a product of the Center for Latter-day Saint Arts. You can learn more about us on our website, centerforlatterdaysaintarts.org. Any final thoughts, Brad?

Brad Pelo: Well, let me just say you didn't say this in the introduction, but I'm a huge fan of the Center for Latter-day Saint Arts. Glen and Richard, the founders of the Center, invited me to a lunch—what's it been now? Six years? Seven years? I don't remember how long ago—and told me of their vision for this center. And it's just my privilege to cheer you on. I love the impact that you're having in the arts among the Latter-day Saint community and onward. Just onward. Just love you and the staff there and all that you're doing.

Glen Nelson: Thank you so much. Goodbye.